Posts by Silent Lion

[QUOTE="'zilla, post: 7168, member: 46"But if there is greater maturity and wisdom, I would expect a deep understanding of the natural laws of human society.[/quote]

Call me naively positive, but I believe this will happen and is even starting to happen, not as a result of conflict or upheaval, but scientific progress. Although often slow and undramatic, the scientific method has provided us with most of the understanding that has allowed us to develop exponentially in the last few centuries. And as advancing neuroscience binds together the currently inconsistent sciences of pscychology, our understanding of ourselves can only grow. If this understanding, and the direction it will advise, can reach a certain point before anything too disastrous happens to us, the future has an actual chance of being half decent.

[quote]Power and wealth accumulates, and so the society must balance this out by stopping/dividing that power when it grows to a certain size. Part of this will be a reduced need for currency, and so power is not power over people's ultimate fate. There will be hierarchy of responsibility, and that responsibility should have an effect on the people in charge. Ownership.. yeah, that's a tricky one, it must be strong in order for people to take their job seriously. I wouldn't know how to best solve this, really.[/QUOTE]

The only thing I can think of to aid it would be psychological profiling. In the future, where we understand human nature better, a promotion should require not only the requisite skills but a psychological profile that is compatible with extra responsibility and ownership.

Quote from LinkSkywalker

Dumb ol' 'zilla always manages to turn Internet arguments into a kind of poetry.

Amen. It's hugely enjoyable.

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Of course, without proper education and direction, a life without work will create people with lazy minds, which I really hope we can avoid. I want to see people using their newfound freedoms to enrich themselves and grow human culture, but that's far from a guarantee.

That would be my main worry for the immediate future. And given the trajectory of current advancement, I fear those with technical abilities will be more highly regarded than those with, say, people skills, or an aptitude for animals. A reverse of the bullied geek of the 80s, where the most tech-savvy will be held as unfairly superior. Less of a distant future, more of a real possibility of the next couple of decades, but hopefully something that can be overcome. And I suspect the answer to that will have a lot to do with your question of engaging the minds of those who will eventually not need to work - finding use for otherwise obsolete skills.

EDIT:

Quote from 'zilla

But if there is greater maturity and wisdom, I would expect a deep understanding of the natural laws of human society.

Call me naively positive, but I believe this will happen and is even starting to happen, not as a result of conflict or upheaval, but scientific progress. Although often slow and undramatic, the scientific method has provided us with most of the understanding that has allowed us to develop exponentially in the last few centuries. And as advancing neuroscience binds together the currently inconsistent sciences of pscychology, our understanding of ourselves can only grow. If this understanding, and the direction it will advise, can reach a certain point before anything too disastrous happens to us, the future has an actual chance of being half decent.

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Power and wealth accumulates, and so the society must balance this out by stopping/dividing that power when it grows to a certain size. Part of this will be a reduced need for currency, and so power is not power over people's ultimate fate. There will be hierarchy of responsibility, and that responsibility should have an effect on the people in charge. Ownership.. yeah, that's a tricky one, it must be strong in order for people to take their job seriously. I wouldn't know how to best solve this, really.

The only thing I can think of to aid it would be psychological profiling. In the future, where we understand human nature better, a promotion should require not only the requisite skills but a psychological profile that is compatible with extra responsibility and ownership.

Poignant. If I could be dig a little deeper, a few practical questions:

Quote from 'zilla

Agriculture is fully automated and compact, and a lot of humanity lives in the next stage of cities.

In many parts of the world, and previously in the 1st world, being a farmer was a bleak subsistence life of hard work and suffering. In the modern west, however, we see a different image emerging. A lot of farmers derive great satsifaction from working with animals and plants across great acres of countryside - I fancy it for myself sometimes - and many are increasingly affluent. Would fully automated farming be an end to that life? Could life in the cities be so good as to override our ancestral connection to more natural environments, and the psychological health benefits that contact with the great outdoors brings? Not to mention the innate desire of many of us to have open space, away from other human beings. Are these things accounted for, or demonised, or eugentically forced out of us?

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These are more dense, but car-free and built for humans to thrive in. Construction and industry are done in sophisticated, automated ways that optimize the use of resources.

Isn't that already what cities are increasingly designed to be? And construction and industry already does that, to the best of its abilities, because it makes economic sense. Are you simply saying that this will continue, or that there will be some greater change?

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This is not a problem because (in a utopian future) the rebellions against the wealthy were successful; the traditional system of labor was overthrown, and the self-sustaining technological backbone of modern society was made a common inheritance of the people. Basic necessities are given to all, who work for improving this system and further the thriving of humanity and other species on the planet.

Complex human civilisation requires organisation, which requires hierarchical responsibility. Will those with more responsibility naturally accumulate power and position, as is our nature, as has been attested to by history? Who, for example, co-ordinates the repair of automated farming equipment? And, innevitably, the co-ordinators become the rulers of that which they co-ordinate. And somebody has to co-ordinate the grand decisions of society - people do not organise themselves meaningfully on their own. This objection is not meant to be a barrier - I think shared ownership probably is the best path to happiness. But do you have any thoughts about overcoming these risks?

What do you think the world should look like in a hundred+ years, if you project forward from today?
Assuming the optimistic future in which things continue to improve, we don't blow ourselves up or die of some disease, and that as technology and society develop we are successful in fixing or overcoming the downsides that come with them. What would that future look like?
It's rather broad, but let's take a couple of examples.

The internet has improved things in many ways. However, the dark web remains a free-for-all of organised crime and a factory for the suffering it produces. If things go perfectly, how will that be fixed/overcome? Will the authorities be able to track everything that goes on through the dark web in a way that is impossible now? Will that be the end of internet anonymity, and will that be the end of everything that makes the internet great? Is there another way out?

Automation. As our supermarkets introduce self-checkouts, our banks have self-service machines, and let alone all the shopping and banking we can do from our phones, there will be less need for such a large army of traditional staff at the physical buildings. Working hours will decrease, as they have been doing for decades. Taken to a logical endgame, if things continue to automate, will the most numerous jobs be those involved in computer programming or maintenance of the machinery of automation? Will people with those skills be considered more worthwhile than those with other more traditional skills? How will that be overcome?

I agree. I think Nintendo are trying to cut their losses by letting Wii U pass away, rather than pouring more money and more trump-card titles into a sunken ship. Probably a good move. This reminds me of TP, and how it ended up as a Wii release even though it was meant to be Gamecube. One disadvantage, though, is that Zelda U has been designed for the older console and therefore might not show off the new console quite so well as if they had designed a Zelda title for the NX in the first place. I remember some similar criticism about TP, that it was showing off the pinacle of Gamecube rather than the promise of Wii. But, as you say, at this stage, what can they do?

I don't normally go for charts, but I love this song. Then I saw the video, and after I finally made the connection between the video, the lyrics and the Syrian refugee crisis, love it more.

Seriously?
That's an impressive achievement.

I've got a tatt, and I love coffee.

SL points: 1

Nor me!
It's so hard not to cheat in this game.

Never have I ever touched a big cat (lion, tiger etc)

I love a good theory, not sure I know enough about this one, but I might chip in just for lulz
What I like about this theory, hard as it is to prove or disprove, is what it would mean for the Zelda universe if it were true.

Quote from Spiritual Mask Salesman

[SIZE=13px][COLOR=rgb(241, 241, 241)]Note: This theorizing will be done from an in-universe point of view, meaning that I'm looking at this theory as if Hyrule and Lorule are real. This is extremely important, as doing it any other way would open up the argument that games that were created before A Link Between Worlds would not be able to reference Lorule because it was not created yet.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

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Quote from CM30

It's an interesting theory, and it would make sense, but I don't think it was Nintendo's intention. Skyward Sword was made way before A Link Between Worlds after all, and I'm not sure this is the kind of thing they'd be planning out so far in advance. Unless they came up with Link Between Worlds based on the story in Skyward Sword, somehow?

Well, that's not strictly in-universe, but it could be that some people at Nintendo thought 'Demise is from another world? That sounds like something cool to go into, let's make a game which starts to expand on his background'. As the chronology and theories surrounding Zelda get deeper, I think Nintendo take it more and more seriously to maintain cohesion and continuety ( consistent universe = happy and inspired fans = $$$ ). I do think it's interesting to take out-of-universe arguments into account, because it opens up conjecture as to whether Nintendo's future moves will prove or disprove a theory. On the flipside though, if a theory holds up for in-universe reasons, but couldn't have been intentional for out-of-universe reasons, Nintendo could always make it cannon in their future material. For example, they could catch wind of this theory about Demise being from Lorule and say 'oh that's cool, ok we'll make that reality and confirm it in our next game.'

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and clear counterparts to Link, Zelda, and Ganondorf (Ravio, Hilda, and Yugu).

If Demise IS from Lorule, he must have cast his hate curse in Lorule previously, otherwise, why would there be a Ganondorf? What's more, we could predict when it happened by working backwards. Demise assumedly came to Hyrule shortly after the destruction of their Triforce. It seems that the sacred realm in Lorule was well explored and exploited, so it stands to reason that Demise could already know of the fissure before the destruction of the Triforce, or he would have found it soon afterwards as he scours the Sacred Realm for traces/fragments of the destroyed Triforce. Also, the destruction of the Triforce would mark (roughly) the time that Demise's powers had reached their height and he would be able to inflict such a curse.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Now, I've never played A Link Between Worlds, so I'm going purely on the information you posted. It's not yet on the official timeline to my knowledge, so is there any information about where on the Zelda chronology A Link Between Worlds is meant to take place, and how recent this destruction of the Triforce happened? Because that could destroy the theory - it has to be possible for the Triforce to be destroyed before Demise comes to Hyrule, which in itself is a long time before the events of SS.
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It has the inverted Triforce on it. It's a backless assumption because we just don't know, although it explains why Lorule is missing a Master Sword equivalent — Demise took it to Hyrule and was killed.

Well, the picture you posted of what I assume is Lorule's Triforce is itself inverted, so that's a sort of evidence. I'm unsure if there's meant to be a link between the master sword(s) and the Triforce(s), but it's worth bearing in mind Lorule's Triforce is destroyed., if that means anything to anyone.

My favourite aspect of this theory, though, is its implications. It would make a huge difference to the nature of the Zelda universe.

CASE 1: Theory Is False
The creation of the world by the three goddesses is the ultimate beginning of Hyrule, they are the source of all things. One can imagine some kind of theory about how evil and Demise came to be - he is their balancing opposite, or came from some shadow that Farore didn't reach, or something. Anyway, the world has a beginning and an origin.

CASE 2: Theory Is True
Demise comes from off-world, thus evil in Hyrule originates off-world. But even in Lorule, Demise can't have come from nowhere - evil must have existed there too, he must have had an origin. Do they have their own version of Demise (a proto-demise), which then cursed everyone and so Demise is his reincaranation, in the same way the Ganondorf is an incarnation of Demise? Now you could point to the existance of a Ganondorf equivalent in Lorule to disprove this, but wait a moment. Incarnations of incarnations are already a theme in Zelda. Consider Zelda herself - as the timeline progresses, she grows more and more distant from her origins. First she is a Goddess, then she is a mortal Princess, the reincarnation of a Goddess, then she is the pirate Tetra, who is a reincarnation of a Princess, who is the reincarnation of a Goddess. Could the same pattern hole true for demise - Lorule had a proto-demise, who is reincanated as Demise, who is reincarnated as Ganondorfs in Lorule and Hyrule? And as the series progresses, Ganondorf's power grows, to the point that he is referred to as a God in Twilight Princess. One day, will he aquire Demise's level of power again? Will Hyrule's Triforce have to be destroyed, and/or will he invade another world and inflict a curse of his own? Is everything an endless cycle? This is all purely conjecture, but it's not completely baseless, it's derived from observable patterns: people like Zelda and Ganondorf grow more distant from their origins as the series progresses, Ganondorf gains power over time, things in different worlds affect each other. I'd like to say it even throws into question the goddesses themselves, and if they are the ultimate form of Zelda, Ganon and Link at the very end of another world's history... but maybe that's taking it too far. I think, overall, it's just a cool idea.[/COLOR][/SIZE]

Quote from Cressel

how dare you

Or maybe it was HIM or Fallout Boy...

@Kaynil nice cover, reminds me of My Chemical Romance or Bullet For My Valentine (I always got those two bands mixed up)

been listening to a lot of neo-electro poppy stuff recently.
[MEDIA=soundcloud][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/media][/MEDIA]

I meant that I've played forum games, but I've never seen one till the end.
Then I remembered that's a load of rubbish because I played the breakfast countdown thing and that ended. So, I feel like a twit Sorry!

So maybe a new one.
Never have I ever owned a pogo stick

Quote from Spiritual Mask Salesman

What name did you go by on ZD?

Same one, Silent Lion. But I haven't been active there since 2008.

Hey guys, good to meet you.
I love me some history and philosophy. English was my major, but I did 16th century history at college-level (British education system, it's all different) and loved it.

I also love my Zelda, but I'm too poor and boring to own anything new, unless someone else buys it for me. Heck, I only completed TP a year ago, after I'd completed SS.

Quote from Kaynil

Other than that, it is good to hear Zelda Dungeon is still going. I have good memories from my days in their forums.

Yeah, me too. I thought about rejoining, but it looked a little crowded. And I've only got time for one forum really, so I make it a good one

Awesome theory. I've a few thoughts to chuck into the blender.

The link between Hylia and the goddesses is very vague in SS - Hylia could be the spirit of Nayru or Farore (according to OoA and PH, as @Kaynil said), who remained behind to 'oversee' the progress of life. She could be a completely separate being who gained a connection to Nayru by being the wisest person around when the Triforce was split and adopting the triforce of wisdom, or she could be the combined essence of all three goddesses, who decided to put a bit of each of them into one goddess so that they could continue being involved in the land on the ground. Perhaps she is a little more Nayru than she is Farore or Din. So, given all these possibilities, Hylia's connection to the goddesses is anyone's guess. Although personally, I like the idea that Hylia is a little of all three deieties, for reasons I'll explain later.

I would agree that the triforce is probably the reason that worship for the goddesses continues. It would seem also that the three goddesses ARE in fact the ultimate deities, according to the creation myth told by the Great Deku Tree in OoT. And the continuing cycle of Link, Zelda and Ganon would tie into a tritheistic view of the world, as though everything in Hyrule were an interaction between the three powers (like Yin and Yang in eastern mysticism, except with three elements instead of two). In OoT and in a lesser sense TP, Link, Ganon and Zelda even come from three symmetrically different directions on the map. So, in this way, belief in the three goddesses is actually logical, as everything points to their influence.

One thing that supports the idea that Hylia might have been the combined essence of all three goddesses is the timeline split. Assuming a connection between Hylia/Zelda and a Goddess of Time, maybe Link's messing around with time travel caused the unity of Hylia's power to split, to refract if you will, into three separate powers - the threefold timeline split. This is especially poignant considering the two ages in OoT exist in close proximity to the breaking of the triforce into three - one age before, one after.

The royal family are, in a way, worshipped. Given their authority over the magic of time and the powers of their servants the Sheikah, they are the gateway between the mortal and the divine. Given that Hylia (aka Zelda) was the link between the observable, physical world and the three deieties in SS, this makes perfect sense.

Two things I don't buy:

1) Recognition of the three goddesses ever went out of fashion. When people refer to them as 'old', I take that to be a literal truth: they did come before Hylia, and they ARE old. The special adoration the people of Skyloft have for Hylia is probably because of the direct connection she had with the people there - she is a local deiety, if you will - but I don't think the three deieties ever stopped being recognised as the original creators and supreme source of everything.

2) The Temple of Time is the Temple of Hylia. Well, yes and no. I think the Temple of Hylia did become the Temple of Time, but at some point it must have been relocated across the country. Either that or the Temple of Time is a separate building and the royal family had all the artefacts from the Temple of Hylia transferred to it, maybe during the Unification War or some other time of trouble. I actually believe the original location of the Temple of Hylia is Lake Hylia.
Reason 1: It's called Lake Hylia.
Reason 2: The Sealed Grounds is a great big hole in the ground. You know, like what you'd expect to be liable to flooding.
Reason 3: The Sky Temple in TP (Skyloft?) is located above Lake Hylia.
Reason 4: Compare these two maps of SS and OoT.

Given the power of the royal family over the magic of time, they could completely build a Temple of Time from scratch if they wanted to. I also believe Zelda doesn't know she's a goddess (except in SS). I'm not going to go into Majora's Mask - as it happens in a mirror universe, all the rules of reality are messed up and who knows what parallels there would be. That's a mind-bender, tbh.

And that's all I got.

-1
Noooo! I owned five cards for like, a week, then got rid of them. Dam you!

Never have I ever completed a forum game.

SL points: 3

Well, I haven't swam ON a beach, that would be very sandy and difficult.... but I've swam in the sea FROM the beach...
Mwahaha!.... Oh, ok.
-1
SL Points: 4

Never have I ever played squash.

Never have you ever?

Sweet! I love me a bit of writing, and a few other people do here too, so feel free to share if you need some extra feedback.

It makes sense to me. The idea of a fourth piece seems completely arbitrary and made up, but your explanation makes sense. Not sure there's much else to say - the person seeking the triforce can be represented as a piece trying to fit into the middle of the triforce. Yep. Makes sense to me. I wish I had some in-depth and enlightening commentary... any takers?