Decades in Music

_LS_ · July 19, 2015 at 9:18 PM Official Post

@Sardonic Pickle and I are having a really dumb argument.

I contest that the music of '60s-'80s was generally good, after which music got shitty. He contests that something "went wrong" in the '80s, and that the '90s "saved" music for awhile before it went bad again in the '00s.

I should disclaim that as a general rule, I don't like music that much. I have my opinions to be sure, but I don't put much weight behind them.

So, @Sardonic Pickle. Praytell, what is redeeming about the music of the '90s? Can you give me some examples that don't fit my aforementioned generalization of "overpolished corporate mush?"

**Kaynil** · July 20, 2015 at 3:45 AM Official Post

*Makes the "ooooh" bully sound*

Since SP is taking his sweet time coming here I say the music mid 60's to mid 200's is alright by me.
The 80's is probably my favourite decade. I enjoy many songs from that era.
the 70's have some kick arse solos and lyrics. Tales in lyrics are very cool.

Right now I do have that feeling of the corporate taking over the main music and pushing a formula. It is not longer about creativity.
You have those shows like Country X got talent rejected talented people because they're "too old" or their style is not "today".
Then you see a 10-12 year old kid in teen fashion getting praised and being told about the brilliant future.

Now you get kid toys offering auto tune.

Now, there are some good bands and refdrshing stuff around but you do better searching online or through friends that the radio or music magazine tops.

Sardonic Pickle · July 20, 2015 at 7:27 AM

I'll say my piece properly once I'm on my PC. Don't you worry Sir Skywalker... I shall explain myself.

_LS_ · July 20, 2015 at 10:33 AM Official Post

As with so many things, I think the Internet has largely solved the problems posed by the '90s and '00s.

The music that gets promoted in the mainstream is still pretty manufactured. But who cares? Now I can listen to a bunch of bands who made themselves popular through the internet. The means of artistic production have returned to the people.

Sardonic Pickle · July 20, 2015 at 7:29 PM

All right, the 60's and 70's had the best music to me. Mainly because they used real instruments. It was a lot more authentic talent back then.

The reason I can't stand most 80's music is the over use of synthesisers. When I listen to the 80's music I try hard to hear real instruments, it becomes like a mixture of today's music and maybe the earlier music. Of course I'm generalising. There are some bands and artists/songs I like from the 80's, same with today's music.

It just seemed that the 80's tried to be 'futuristic' with their music and it ended up sounding just fake.

Then the 90's came around, and early 90's punk popped up. Back to being guitar, bass, and drums. Real instruments, real sound. I'm not a huge fan of grunge, but there was nothing synthesised about that. It was a bunch of guys or girls, playing instruments and making music again.

Of course I'm generalising once again, and there are bands from the 90's that I don't like. Though I feel the majority of the popular music from the 90's tried to bring it back to 'real' instruments.

Also I'm not saying it doesn't take talent to produce music through synthesisers, I just think the sound is fake and I prefer music that's relatively left untouched by machines.

After the 90's, it started to get all auto-tuney and synthetic again. So with a few exceptions, I don't like much of the popular stuff today.

_LS_ · July 20, 2015 at 8:11 PM Official Post

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

Of course I'm generalising.

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

Of course I'm generalising once again

The entire thesis of this conversation is fundamentally about generalizations. We're talking about taking an entire decade, and compressing its cultural output down to a binary function: good or bad. Not only that, we're talking about decades of history as though there's a clear line of dilatation between them, which is fucking silly as balls. Every decade flows seamlessly into the next, and it's not until years after the decade has ended that we begin to form a real idea of what that decade was like.

There's no need for us to take ourselves too seriously here.

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

All right, the 60's and 70's had the best music to me. Mainly because they used real instruments. It was a lot more authentic talent back then.

We can agree that the '60s and '70s was great. (By the by, if you care, the apostrophe is correctly placed before the decade to indicate the missing millennium and century. The decade is not possessive, and thus does not have an apostrophe before the suffixed "S"). However, we disagree on why.

With the rise of the Radio in the 1920s, popular music began to become a monolith. Music was no longer something you listened to first-hand, with the musician actually within the hearing range of your ear. Music was something you could experience with the entire nation. And so, music started to flatten itself out into something that would be palatable to the entire nation. Aiming for broad appeal + fundamentally capitalistic motivations = the death of art. We slowly started to resist the force of this trend in the '50s. Buuuut IMHO the music of the '50s is bland as fuck. The renaissance of popular music really reached fruition in the '60s and '70s, when it undeniably produced some of the best popular music of our age.

TL;DR: the music of the '60s and '70s is good because it's the work of artists doing the kind of weird experimental shit they wanted to do, not because it uses authentic instruments.

Disclaimer: Please refer to my original post, and to the beginning of this post, before you take my views on any of this too seriously. I barely know what I'm talking about at all.

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

The reason I can't stand most 80's music is the over use of synthesisers. When I listen to the 80's music I try hard to hear real instruments, it becomes like a mixture of today's music and maybe the earlier music. Of course I'm generalising. There are some bands and artists/songs I like from the 80's, same with today's music.

It just seemed that the 80's tried to be 'futuristic' with their music and it ended up sounding just fake.

We're going to have to chalk some of this up to a difference in taste. As evidenced by the "Favorite NES Tunes" thread, I have a love for electronic music. I don't think it's about sounding futuristic. I think we discovered a way to make entirely new kinds of sounds. Sounds nobody had ever heard before. And the 80s were a gloriously popular exploration of those new sounds.

But even ignoring electronic music, the 80s has my love for giving rise to metal. Most of metals roots are in the '70s, but the genre didn't really come into its own until the '80s. And unfortunately, the '80s was also the peak for awhile, as metal would start to get real shitty in the '90s.

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

Then the 90's came around, and early 90's punk popped up. Back to being guitar, bass, and drums. Real instruments, real sound. I'm not a huge fan of grunge, but there was nothing synthesised about that. It was a bunch of guys or girls, playing instruments and making music again.

Of course I'm generalising once again, and there are bands from the 90's that I don't like. Though I feel the majority of the popular music from the 90's tried to bring it back to 'real' instruments.

As I discussed above, instrumentation doesn't impress me overmuch. Unless it's really really weird.

I'm struggling to think of a really good band from the '90s. I suppose you could count Nirvana. But I tend to think of them as going against the grain of what was being produced at the time. They're not really emblematic, in my mind, of the music of the '90s.

Would you mind giving me some samples of good '90s bands?

Quote from Sardonic Pickle

Also I'm not saying it doesn't take talent to produce music through synthesisers, I just think the sound is fake and I prefer music that's relatively left untouched by machines.

After the 90's, it started to get all auto-tuney and synthetic again. So with a few exceptions, I don't like much of the popular stuff today.

My general rule of thumb is that if it came out between 1989 and 2007, I probably won't like it. That's hardly a hard-and-fast rule, there are TONS of exceptions. But when I sit down to watch/listen to something and I see a date within that range, I brace myself.

I think things are getting a whole lot better right now. Popular music is kinda fucky, but it's also much less relevant than it was before. Because Internet.

Sardonic Pickle · July 20, 2015 at 10:14 PM

Quote from LinkSkywalker

We can agree that the '60s and '70s was great. (By the by, if you care, the apostrophe is correctly placed before the decade to indicate the missing millennium and century. The decade is not possessive, and thus does not have an apostrophe before the suffixed "S"). However, we disagree on why.

Thanks for letting me know, I shall try to remember that.

Quote from LinkSkywalker

With the rise of the Radio in the 1920s, popular music began to become a monolith. Music was no longer something you listened to first-hand, with the musician actually within the hearing range of your ear. Music was something you could experience with the entire nation. And so, music started to flatten itself out into something that would be palatable to the entire nation. Aiming for broad appeal + fundamentally capitalistic motivations = the death of art. We slowly started to resist the force of this trend in the '50s. Buuuut IMHO the music of the '50s is bland as fuck. The renaissance of popular music really reached fruition in the '60s and '70s, when it undeniably produced some of the best popular music of our age.

Makes sense.

Quote from LinkSkywalker

We're going to have to chalk some of this up to a difference in taste. As evidenced by the "Favorite NES Tunes" thread, I have a love for electronic music. I don't think it's about sounding futuristic. I think we discovered a way to make entirely new kinds of sounds. Sounds nobody had ever heard before. And the 80s were a gloriously popular exploration of those new sounds.

But even ignoring electronic music, the 80s has my love for giving rise to metal. Most of metals roots are in the '70s, but the genre didn't really come into its own until the '80s. And unfortunately, the '80s was also the peak for awhile, as metal would start to get real shitty in the '90s.

It is definitely about taste, I can't stand electronic music, besides game tunes. I also don't like metal very much.

Quote from LinkSkywalker

I'm struggling to think of a really good band from the '90s. I suppose you could count Nirvana. But I tend to think of them as going against the grain of what was being produced at the time. They're not really emblematic, in my mind, of the music of the '90s.

Would you mind giving me some samples of good '90s bands?

This is of course subjective :p

Green Day
Smashing Pumpkins
Dave Matthews Band
Red Hot Chilli Peppers
R.E.M
Goo Goo Dolls
Faith No More

I'm probably just biased because it's the music that surrounded me. Though my Dad was always playing '60s and '70s music too.

_LS_ · July 20, 2015 at 10:20 PM Official Post

Yarrr, I really don't like any of those bands. I confess I was in love with that one popular Goo Goo Dolls song when I was a teenager, but at best I consider it a guilty pleasure now. I've never heard of Faith No More, and aside from a song here and there, I don't recall enjoying any of those bands very much.

Which, of course, is a matter of taste.

kilovh · July 22, 2015 at 10:05 PM

So, let me throw my $.02 into the ring here.

First of all, I am a huge fan of some music from every decade since the 1920s. That does not mean I think every decade was created equal, however.

I think the first misconception we have to put away is that corporate involvement either kills or saves music. This is clearly not true. Sometimes (eg, the 70s) mainstream music is the real deal, the stuff that will last for generations to come, the stuff people will be listening to far into the future. Sometimes (50s, some of the 00s) the mainstream stuff is pap that no one will remember five minutes from now that has no true artistic merit. That is why there has always been some good music, since the 20s. You just have to know where to find it.

With that preface, here is what I think about the decades since the 60s. These are off-of-my-head impressions. It may be that if I actually went and checked charts for these decades I'd remember tons of things good and bad that I've forgotten. But I'm a musical optimist. There's always more good stuff around the corner, if your know where to look...Also, this is talking more about popular music that feels connected to its time, not to timeless or world music thatm ay have been created then but shouldn't really count for or against the decade. I'll throw in some great live performances for fun and because they really give you a taste for the time:

---
1960s - Genesis. The beginning. The big bang. This is when modern pop music was revolutionized ever by the Beatles and was giving all of its grounding and form. Everything that came after is based on this decade. However, not everything here (Despite the claims fo aging hippies and young hippie-wannabees) is worth the effort. Not everyone that played at Woodstock was a visionary. Not everyone that took drugs and picked up a guitar will be remembered forever. However, there were some truly transcendent and special things going on in this decade, eg Jimi Hendrix, Santana, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, Beach Boys, Kinks, etc. etc.

Best Live Performance: Santana playing Soul Sacrifice at Woodstock:

---
1970s - This was the apex of mainstream music. There was simply no better time in history to own a radio. The hippies had grown up a bit, the record engineering was better, and some entirely new genres took off. For me there are too many great bands from the 70s to count. For example, just in 1971, the world first heard monumental albums by: Led Zeppelin, The Who (at their prime), The Rolling Stones (ditto), David Bowie, Marvin Gaye, Jethro Tull, Yes, The Allman Brothers Band (Duane Allman is the messiah), Funkadelic, Mahavishnu Orchestra, John Lennon (his solo work), Rory Gallagher, America, Can, ELO....This is a decade stuffed full of excellent, excellent music. And I didn't even mention Fleetwood Mac, CCR, Queen, Elton John, Deep Purple, Simon & Garfunkle, Aerosmith, etc etc

Best live performance: The Allman Brothers Band playing Statesboro Blues at the Fillmore. No video unfortunately, but the best slide guitar of all time.
---
1980s - Mainstream music takes kind of a nosedive but it's okay because we get punk and the beginning of the underground scene. This is when the really really good punk, post-punk, and new wave stuff started coming out. If you were turned into the mainstream all you'd get was michael jackson and synthesizers (though there is some arena rock that is actually great music, eg Queen, Bruce Springsteen). But if you had an ear to the ground, you would have heard some of the greatest artists ever, such as The Cure, The Smiths, Black Flag, Sonic Youth, The Clash, Sex Pistols, Pixies, Dead Kennedys, The Pogues, Bruce Springsteen, Violent Femmes, the Pogues, Queen, Minutemen, and Queen. And this is not to mention the huge heavy metal explosion with the likes of metallica, iron maiden, and a zillion other awesome bands if you're into that type of thing. [BTW - I am not anti-synthesizer in particular; I'm anti-synthesizer when it's used for BS like disco (which existed in the otherwise sublime 70s, btw) but some electronic music really is fantastic].

Best live performance: Queen at Live Aid. On many people's lists, this is the greatest live performance of all time. Freddie Mercury is transcendent and the crowd of zillions is in the palm of his hand.

---
1990s - Watershed decade. The mainstream radio stuff actually wasn't bad at all compared to the eighties, but the indie music renaissance was truly getting going and some of its first stars remain its brightest. Some really bad record engineering practices really took off in this decade but that's a discussion for a different time. Some of my all-time favorite albums are from the 90s. Artists include Nirvana, Neutral Milk Hotel, Guns 'n' Roses, Sigur Ros, Oasis, GY!BE, Massive Attack, Jeff Buckley, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine, REM, Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against the Machine, SOAD, Weezer, Soundgarden, and that one song from harvey danger.

Best live performance: Nirvana unplugged in New York playing The Man Who Sold The World. Not much moving and it's played to total silence, but it's so freaking beautiful...

---
2000s - Radio music takes a decided nosedive, mostly due to the influence of hip-hop (the 00s musically only really seemed to start at like 2004 anyway). But oh boy the underground music just kept coming. This is when I got really into piracy so I remember a lot of the play-by-play album releases especially after '06. Daft Punk! Explosions in the Sky! more Radiohead! The White Stripes! The Decemberists! Saltillo! Of Montreal! Battles! Death Cab! QotSA! Wilco! Lady Ga Ga (kappa)!

Best live performance: Can it be that an electronic band actually performs well live? I'm not sure what to choose for this decade. But I've never heard a crowd go more insane than the one here.

---
2010s - I am at this point thoroughly removed from whatever might be considered mainstream at this point. Almost every time I hear something mainstream it either sound like some nasally imposter trying to be as good as real indie bands or some myrmidon grunting to a beat. (Though occasionally the good stuff makes it big -- Ed Sheeran is good; Fun. is good.) I feel at this point that it may actually be too easy for just anyone to distribute music and it becomes harder to find good stuff not because of corporate BS but because you have to find the people who are generally talented as opposed to the people who just fit some sort of mold. However, in that talented group, you have Real Estate, Bastille, Janelle Monae, Beach House (their album Bloom may be my favorite of the past five years), Bon Iver, Fucked Up, Of Montreal, Vampire Weekend, M83, etc...

Best live performance: Janelle Monae playing "Come Alive" at Glastonbury, probably. It's for the ages. Amazing.

---

It's hard for me to say what the best decade is, though if I were forced to pick it might be the 70s. My point here is more - there's always good music. Just gotta know where to look.

Sardonic Pickle · July 23, 2015 at 10:06 PM

Quote from kilovh

So, let me throw my $.02 into the ring here.

First of all, I am a huge fan of some music from every decade since the 1920s. That does not mean I think every decade was created equal, however.

I think the first misconception we have to put away is that corporate involvement either kills or saves music. This is clearly not true. Sometimes (eg, the 70s) mainstream music is the real deal, the stuff that will last for generations to come, the stuff people will be listening to far into the future. Sometimes (50s, some of the 00s) the mainstream stuff is pap that no one will remember five minutes from now that has no true artistic merit. That is why there has always been some good music, since the 20s. You just have to know where to find it.

With that preface, here is what I think about the decades since the 60s. These are off-of-my-head impressions. It may be that if I actually went and checked charts for these decades I'd remember tons of things good and bad that I've forgotten. But I'm a musical optimist. There's always more good stuff around the corner, if your know where to look...Also, this is talking more about popular music that feels connected to its time, not to timeless or world music thatm ay have been created then but shouldn't really count for or against the decade. I'll throw in some great live performances for fun and because they really give you a taste for the time:

---
1960s - Genesis. The beginning. The big bang. This is when modern pop music was revolutionized ever by the Beatles and was giving all of its grounding and form. Everything that came after is based on this decade. However, not everything here (Despite the claims fo aging hippies and young hippie-wannabees) is worth the effort. Not everyone that played at Woodstock was a visionary. Not everyone that took drugs and picked up a guitar will be remembered forever. However, there were some truly transcendent and special things going on in this decade, eg Jimi Hendrix, Santana, The Beatles, The Rolling Stones, The Who, Bob Dylan, Janis Joplin, Beach Boys, Kinks, etc. etc.

Best Live Performance: Santana playing Soul Sacrifice at Woodstock:

---
1970s - This was the apex of mainstream music. There was simply no better time in history to own a radio. The hippies had grown up a bit, the record engineering was better, and some entirely new genres took off. For me there are too many great bands from the 70s to count. For example, just in 1971, the world first heard monumental albums by: Led Zeppelin, The Who (at their prime), The Rolling Stones (ditto), David Bowie, Marvin Gaye, Jethro Tull, Yes, The Allman Brothers Band (Duane Allman is the messiah), Funkadelic, Mahavishnu Orchestra, John Lennon (his solo work), Rory Gallagher, America, Can, ELO....This is a decade stuffed full of excellent, excellent music. And I didn't even mention Fleetwood Mac, CCR, Queen, Elton John, Deep Purple, Simon & Garfunkle, Aerosmith, etc etc

Best live performance: The Allman Brothers Band playing Statesboro Blues at the Fillmore. No video unfortunately, but the best slide guitar of all time.
---
1980s - Mainstream music takes kind of a nosedive but it's okay because we get punk and the beginning of the underground scene. This is when the really really good punk, post-punk, and new wave stuff started coming out. If you were turned into the mainstream all you'd get was michael jackson and synthesizers (though there is some arena rock that is actually great music, eg Queen, Bruce Springsteen). But if you had an ear to the ground, you would have heard some of the greatest artists ever, such as The Cure, The Smiths, Black Flag, Sonic Youth, The Clash, Sex Pistols, Pixies, Dead Kennedys, The Pogues, Bruce Springsteen, Violent Femmes, the Pogues, Queen, Minutemen, and Queen. And this is not to mention the huge heavy metal explosion with the likes of metallica, iron maiden, and a zillion other awesome bands if you're into that type of thing. [BTW - I am not anti-synthesizer in particular; I'm anti-synthesizer when it's used for BS like disco (which existed in the otherwise sublime 70s, btw) but some electronic music really is fantastic].

Best live performance: Queen at Live Aid. On many people's lists, this is the greatest live performance of all time. Freddie Mercury is transcendent and the crowd of zillions is in the palm of his hand.

---
1990s - Watershed decade. The mainstream radio stuff actually wasn't bad at all compared to the eighties, but the indie music renaissance was truly getting going and some of its first stars remain its brightest. Some really bad record engineering practices really took off in this decade but that's a discussion for a different time. Some of my all-time favorite albums are from the 90s. Artists include Nirvana, Neutral Milk Hotel, Guns 'n' Roses, Sigur Ros, Oasis, GY!BE, Massive Attack, Jeff Buckley, Cocteau Twins, My Bloody Valentine, REM, Radiohead, Smashing Pumpkins, Rage Against the Machine, SOAD, Weezer, Soundgarden, and that one song from harvey danger.

Best live performance: Nirvana unplugged in New York playing The Man Who Sold The World. Not much moving and it's played to total silence, but it's so freaking beautiful...

---
2000s - Radio music takes a decided nosedive, mostly due to the influence of hip-hop (the 00s musically only really seemed to start at like 2004 anyway). But oh boy the underground music just kept coming. This is when I got really into piracy so I remember a lot of the play-by-play album releases especially after '06. Daft Punk! Explosions in the Sky! more Radiohead! The White Stripes! The Decemberists! Saltillo! Of Montreal! Battles! Death Cab! QotSA! Wilco! Lady Ga Ga (kappa)!

Best live performance: Can it be that an electronic band actually performs well live? I'm not sure what to choose for this decade. But I've never heard a crowd go more insane than the one here.

---
2010s - I am at this point thoroughly removed from whatever might be considered mainstream at this point. Almost every time I hear something mainstream it either sound like some nasally imposter trying to be as good as real indie bands or some myrmidon grunting to a beat. (Though occasionally the good stuff makes it big -- Ed Sheeran is good; Fun. is good.) I feel at this point that it may actually be too easy for just anyone to distribute music and it becomes harder to find good stuff not because of corporate BS but because you have to find the people who are generally talented as opposed to the people who just fit some sort of mold. However, in that talented group, you have Real Estate, Bastille, Janelle Monae, Beach House (their album Bloom may be my favorite of the past five years), Bon Iver, Fucked Up, Of Montreal, Vampire Weekend, M83, etc...

Best live performance: Janelle Monae playing "Come Alive" at Glastonbury, probably. It's for the ages. Amazing.

---

It's hard for me to say what the best decade is, though if I were forced to pick it might be the 70s. My point here is more - there's always good music. Just gotta know where to look.

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I'm so happy you mentioned the Pogues, I love them.

Also you're right, there is always good music. I find this present decade the hardest to find good music though.

_LS_ · July 24, 2015 at 2:06 AM Official Post

I never meant to imply that certain decades had good music and others did not. Of course, there is always good music to be found if you know where to look. But I hold to the assertion that money is the death of art. Not because money corrupts artists, but because people with money become the gatekeepers of artists, and people with money make terrible, awful, no-good, very-bad choices.

In the '60s, what was good and what was mainstream became the same thing. The gatekeepers with money were knocked aside by the passionate relationship between musician and audience. And it took those gatekeepers awhile to reassert their control.

Also, Neutral Milk Hotel is amazeballs. I'm kinda sad I wasn't able to see them on their reunion tour.

'zilla · May 9, 2016 at 4:33 PM

Wut? Things started going downhill after the wars

_LS_ · May 9, 2016 at 9:29 PM Official Post